New Age Not Same As Yoga · 27 August 2008
Or, Marxist and Marketing Exec Unite. Ohhh! I am not blogging any more. I keep deciding this. Must redirect those little “I'll journal that” impulses. But… I listened to CP while chopping vegetables for lunch and here I am. Today he’s making the case that New Age Spirituality is a far greater source of bullshit for yoga practice in the west than is consumerism. We got on this topic here recently as well.
What’s the difference between New Age and Yoga? This is off the top of my head, so please add suggestions or disagreements in the comments.
NEW AGE YOGA
| Self-affirmation | Self-study |
| Reincarnation | This incarnation |
| Chant and pray to spirits and gods for the promotion | Do your best and let go of expectations for the payoff |
| Ritual | Practice |
| Superstition | Equanimity |
| Scorpio, Cancer or Virgo? | Bhakti, Karma or Jnana? |
| Bliss | Mysticism |
| I’m too sexy for my shirt | I’m too sweaty for my shirt |
| Yoga Journal Ad pages | Namarupa |
| ancient wisdom | Science and research |
| The Law of Attraction | The Yoga of Action |
| Consuming Ethically | Consuming Less |
| Self-adoration | Self-transformation |
| Asana shows me how much I can accomplish | Asana shows me how much I can let go |
| Asana makes me feel like a sexy beast | Asana makes me care less about being a beauty object |
Oh and by the way, it’s weird that the CP-Owl relationship has dissolved into a love fest. Now that we’ve broken bread together, it’s probably irreversible.
The ancient history of the CP-Owl relationship wasn’t so great, you know. I got into writing here because I had an axe to grind and stuff to “figure out”; he got in to writing for the laughs. We disagreed about everything. I thought he didn’t get advaita; he thought I was I a punishing meanie. I thought his progressive politics were a sham; he thought I was angry and overly threatened by benign western culture. I thought he lacked tapas; he thought I lacked middle pathway moderation. I thought he should get his ass to India; he thought (perhaps) I had something I was running from. He while claiming to be a jerk treated me with respect; I while claiming to love everybody lost my temper repeatedly.
Me: an uncompromising person who critiques western culture for a living. Him: a compromiser who produces western culture for a living. What’s going on? Why do we keep agreeing?
Yoga oughta worry about this. If it’s trafficking in beliefs so empty that both the Marxist and the Marketing Exec can see through them and thus stop arguing and combine energies, there might be real trouble acomin.
Posted by (0v0)
Categories: astanga yoga
, crypto-Hegelianism
, self-deception
, spirituality
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Hi (0v0)
Why am I the first one to comment? Is it a west coast/pacific time thing? Sometimes I think you’re touched by genius. Heck, you probably are, but don’t need the pedestal. Love the table. It so truist. I don’t see you as a Marxist, but whatever, so between the Marxist and the Marketing Exec, there are those of softies in between clutching plushie dolls (and lighting candles to them. ha!)
Cheers,
Arturo
Posted by: arturo · Aug 27, 12:04 PM · #
You and I “uncompromise” differently, not very differently, but not the same. It’d be interesting for me to say more about that (for me, anyway).
Some of your new-age hocus-pocus sounds like Anusara (sexy beast, dance of the heart, etc).
I think it’s hilarious that you lost the “temper jujitsu” with CP in the early days. He’s a sly cat.
Posted by: patrick · Aug 27, 01:29 PM · #
I’m not a very good Marxist, Arturo.
More experience makes me more compromising. I like this… While I dislike lying to self and others, I so hope my personality doesn’t depend on some form of rigidity. God. Over time, I get easier. Maybe.... It's a question, whether you take a course in life that encourages you to become more dogmatic over time, or more accepting...
Speaking of! There are some great things about New Age spirituality. It’s mostly pluralist (as the Integralists note) and tolerant (except sometimes of Christianity), values conservation and peace and diversity, and creates some connection to sacredness. But also, can be narcissistic, obssessed with fantasy and/or empowerment (sometimes a gender difference in which side people choose?), and geared toward using spirituality to get stuff. Also, usually a way of avoiding immediate experience and uncertainty.
Other possible contrasts…
NEW AGE: magic
YOGA: subtlety
NEW AGE: imagination
YOGA: perception
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 27, 01:42 PM · #
Possibly taking it too far:
NEW AGE: mind games
YOGA: embodied inquiry
Yeah, that one might come off more insulting than convincing.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 27, 01:44 PM · #
fantastic chart… I love it! I guess I’ll listen to the podcast- I usually save them as rewards! I’m not quite deserving of it yet today.
CP a meanie!? say it isn’t so. I love him too. He takes yoga talk and makes people laugh. I have seen him drive a stake through Zee’s heart, so I guess he can cut when necessary. Also why he is the greatest. Well, you’re the greatest too, in lady form!
Posted by: Liz · Aug 27, 02:05 PM · #
Ooh! Can I play too?
NA: Individual truths
Y: Independently verified truth
NA: Honoring the spirit
Y: Spirited living
NA: Peaceful Warrior
Y: Huh?
Posted by: Carl · Aug 27, 04:05 PM · #
You’re not a punishing meanie?
Clearly I’m going to have to back up and read some early CP and OvO, I have not seen you really go at it. What fun! Stuff to distract me at work tomorrow!
Posted by: LI Ashtangini · Aug 27, 04:20 PM · #
Carl! The way you put that first one is just right. More descriptive than “relativist/ empiricist,” which is what I’d have said.
Am I a punishing meanie? When I think back on my fussing at CP a year and a half ago, I feel that I was. I don’t think we ever stated our grievances so much as sensed these things (“energy reading,” you know) because there was disagreement about the nature of capitalism and whether intensity or balance was the most important aspect of practice. I don’t think either of us has changed our views so much as become unserious about them.
Maybe some of that will be visible online for your entertainment? But maybe it’s lost to the ether and you’ll have to read between all the lines.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 27, 06:03 PM · #
oh! I misread… YOU were the punishing meanie! ha ha!!! That’s even funnier.
Posted by: Liz · Aug 27, 07:18 PM · #
Awwww…you guys are too sweet. I’m all a-blushing.
Owl – I never saw you as being mean. I just figured that you were too smart to fall for my usual sleight-of-hand tricks, so I had to dig in my heels more!
But we are certainly united in our love of daily practice and our dislike of new age pablum.
I think this practice, over time, does soften us. It becomes hard to hold on to things too tightly. Be they beliefs, habits or arguments. It’s like the current authorization debate. while I find it very interesting I don’t really care about it on an emotional level. what happens in mysore doesn’t affect my life or my practice. I guess I should be more sensitive to people that are emotionally invested in the politics of the practice.
Posted by: cody · Aug 28, 08:05 AM · #
Greetings Owl!
NA: bhranti darshana
Y: viveka
Apropos of nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4vHhv5QHs8
Posted by: jlafitte · Aug 28, 05:16 PM · #
Did this practice actually soften you Cody?
I think you’re still the same as day one, a man with opinions that he’s not willing to step down from or really take a good look at.
I think it’s Owl and her systems breaking down that is happening here…Owl’s the one who’s softening, she’s the one who is opening her heart. Owl if nothing else is more than a willing participant in self study(Self study that’s when you study yourself to get to the universal source, not study yourself to reaffirm your self serving philosophy.) Self study is messy, and you don’t always end up in a comfortable place. Owl is not afraid of that place.
But our dear Cody I think is.
Posted by: Susan · Aug 29, 07:16 AM · #
I think so, Susan, but I guess that’s for others to decide. I certainly fight less. I’m more tolerant of others, particularly religious people. I’ve tried fundamentalism and come back to the other side. I’ve found the middle path in a lot of things that I had less control of previously.
Then again, I have a very specific intention for my website, so any changes experienced in real life may not always be reflected online.
I’ll have to ask people in real life whether I’ve softened up or not.
But isn’t everyone a little scared of leaving a comfortable place?
Posted by: cody · Aug 29, 07:39 AM · #
Fussy! Right on. I can’t decide if the snarkiness between you is about nondualism versus dualism or class war. Same thing.
As for me, it’s not like I’ve entirely lost my edge. Give me some credit here?
As the Editor said last week, witnessing my response to an "Ashtanga+Anusara" studio where the owner’s short bio explains she’s doing graduate study to find the significance of Jacques Lacan (godhelpus) to yoga philosophy:
I put the fun in fundamentalist.
(He puts the pun in pundamentalist.)
Anusara + Ashtanga. My ultimate vritti.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 29, 08:03 AM · #
It’s the age-old battle between goths & hippies! Although it should be known that I’ve always supported equal rights for all goths.
Actually, I admire Susan’s devotion to non-dualism. I just think that one practices dualism and non-dualism comes on its own.
Plus, I’m currently reading some Ramana Maharishi!
Posted by: cody · Aug 29, 09:01 AM · #
Eh. The comment battles are all fought over minuscule snapshots of thoughts. Nobody really has access to whatever other people are really thinking strictly by way of the blogstream. But even so, Cody shows that he is a responsible, fun-loving guy and that he occupies himself in a way that he enjoys, and that gives him pleasure in life. Just by accomplishing those things, he’s opened doors to whatever “self-study” he does or wishes to do. He has taken up a way of life that he doesn’t have to reject in order to attain whatever goals he might have.
I imagine Susan to be gradually working at un-stitching perceived unfairness, rather than actually making her own leap. But I really don’t know and I have no way of knowing, save for going down to Portland and daily spying on Susan. I’ve wondered now and then whether Owl has been tricking herself into believing she is attacking regressive social dynamics when in fact she’s defending them. I am certain that’s not true though. There’s just no way to conclude these things from occasional hints. And, too, most of our conclusions about one another are just old-fashioned Freudian projection.
Zee quite assuredly is a screwball though.
Posted by: Carl · Aug 29, 09:24 AM · #
Out on a limb here. Zee has never said anything that isn’t aligned with traditional zen. He may be a foxy screwball.
Posted by: karen · Aug 29, 09:54 AM · #
Carl, I would be intrigued by an elaboration of this paradox you suggest.
Zee is useful. Interesting that Susan, CP, Karen and I are the only ones in the whole ‘sphere who appreciate that. We’ve all had him rip in to us, and we’ve all been “soft” enough to use those comments in interesting ways for our own understandings (though, yeah, CP and I bite back on occasion). Considering our receptiveness to the universal gadfly, are we equally soft on ourselves and with one another?
As for you Zee-haters… :) The screwball factor is complicating. :)
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 29, 10:16 AM · #
I wasn’t suggesting that Zee is to be dismissed. He’s quite good at catching people’s attention to ideas. And though he IS quite the wackjob, my disagreement with him actually is that his shtick is mostly stale hash — he delivers the same recycled, second-hand stuff over and over again, with no evidence that he actually gets it. The only thing that keeps Zee in business is his amusing ESLism.
Posted by: Carl · Aug 29, 10:47 AM · #
I’m perfectly happy being soft on everyone. Working on being softer to myself. And making remarkably good headway.
Posted by: karen · Aug 29, 10:52 AM · #
The ESLism softens Zee for me. I agree he needs some new material. Apparently, the universe agrees as well. Check it out:
THE ZEE MEME:
“Zee needs to start making more sophisticated TV”
“ZEE want’s and needs ALL the attention”
“Zee needs a Producer in Mumbai”
“Zee needs to be inside a rap institution.”
“Zee needs to tap into his true self, because his professional life is a shambles.”
“Zee needs to screen its submissions more carefully.”
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 29, 10:54 AM · #
Karen, this headway of which you speak… does it feel like it specifically has to do with spending two hours in a meditative body practice every day?
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 29, 10:56 AM · #
Sure. That and having a family practice, having a new puppy practice, having a husband practice, having a job practice… The morning meditative body/mind practice resets everything to zero — like a spiritual reboot to start each day. LOL!
Posted by: karen · Aug 29, 11:41 AM · #
Carl, as far as my un-stitching goes it has nothing to do with perceived unfairness but more of an un-stitching of perceived rightness i find among fellow yogis. Right? Right.
Oh and Carl, I made my own leap a while back. You should try it yourself…step out of that comfort zone, and I’m not talking about asana here.
As far as my darling Zee goes, seems to me all the great sages serve the same hash over and over again until people get it. Not to say that he is one of our great sages he can actually be one of our great asses at times, but he pulls punches that can actually push one to LOOK and SEE. If one were really ready for that kind of thing. Not a whack job. No, no, no.
And yes, Cody it is scary leaving that comfortable place, but when you do you realize that place was not only comfortable but lazy and selfish too.
Posted by: Susan · Aug 29, 03:21 PM · #
In a cruel world, Zee is the cruelest. I think that is all Owl meant by calling him “useful.” He is good for practice.
If you people think he’s a sage, that is just foolishness.
Posted by: Silent P. · Aug 29, 06:12 PM · #
Some people know how to deliver a sweet zen slap. It’s not shaktipat. But it still might be good to experience.
I try to keep it on the DL, but the people still bothering to read this thread already know about my clairvoyance issues. :) So here’s a treat. I’m going to read Zee’s mind. A little of of the Svengali’s own medicine here.
Zee has a fantasy of himself as great teacher. This is the position of ultimate power—able to control not only the student’s body but her mind. Ironically, on the internet, the experiment is to control the mind with the background fantasy of controlling the body. Because all great false teachers eventually have sexual access to their students, you know. That is the key. The fantasy of bodymind domination disguised as “good for you” but really just a working out of unresolved sexual issues that remain in shadow. Seen to all of us, but not seen to the Doctor.
There is some shakti there, but it is totally unconscious and filtered through unresolved shadows of woman-hatred. Use it for what it’s worth to you, but be cautious.
Now more than ever, we live in a world where teaching is diffuse and teachers imperfect. Find what works where you can get it, but don’t worship the messenger. Ever. Ahem.
Teachers are ultimately "false" if you expect the world from them, but so are we all. :) What’s interesting is looking clearly and pulling up the bits that are actually transformative. They are in the most unexpected places. The MOST unexpected. The best we can do is stay open.
I’m drinking and writing my dissertation on a Friday night. Nice to have pinot noir back in my life!!!! Otherwise I’d never say anything of this. Back to my dissertaton now. Hopefully this wine will benefit my excursus on ethical consumerism…?
xoxovo
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 29, 06:34 PM · #
Yes Owl.
Good luck with your drinking practice:)
Posted by: Susan · Aug 29, 06:53 PM · #
Indeed, so many people confuse yoga with something different. Coming to class to “feel good, feel the body power, feel fun!”, telling friends about it. Keeping same lifestyle after all.. just a little more “new aged”.
And the sad thing is, many yoga studios have New Age teachers inspiring this attitude in new yogis.
What can we do? Talk about it, I guess.. Show different paths.
Posted by: Anna · Aug 29, 10:25 PM · #
In the end, though, all we can do is our own practices. Whatever they may be.
Posted by: karen · Aug 30, 04:45 AM · #
Just realized what I was thinking there, but didn’t say. Yes, teachers are important for learning, but in the end, your practice is your own. You, alone. The issue of how much to worship a teacher is moot. Which is why it’s always right to kill the Buddha on the road.
Posted by: karen · Aug 30, 04:50 AM · #
Anna, hello! Interesting blog and line of work you have. I know a few people who are teachers and consider their work to be this “showing different paths” that you mention. Highlighting the limitations and traps of New Age spirituality by, for example, inviting people to think critically about their relationiship to astrology. Is it fearful superstition, or interpretive tool? I bet you get all kinds of interesting stuff in your line of work.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 30, 05:09 AM · #
Yes I agree, Karen. As long as you don’t kick the shit out of the Buddha first. Or let HIM kick the shit out of you.
No more drinking and blogging, eh? I decided to edit my comment above. Also I want to expand here because when tipso my critical faculties go a bit soft.
The thing is, this isn’t The Karate Kid, Jesus’ Crucifixion, or Fight Club. There is no redemption through violence. Sometimes violence is just demeaning. In receiving it, you just have to deal. That is good practice, as I was trying to say.
But in doling out harshness, distinguishing between demeaning and helpful is… really difficult. Who has the insight to know the difference?
I would like to argue that asana practice is not (or should not be) redemption through violence. Though obviously some teachers, including successful western teachers, and students see it as such. Just taking it while your guru stands on you and a stick digs into your leg scarring you for ever? Showing up and performing every day for a teacher who barks at you and makes you work so hard you have no energy for your life? “Surrendering” to backbends that permanently damage your discs? This is learning through terror more than letting the ego be crushed, I would say; and I question whether it perpetuates a narrative of purification through violence that belongs in another era… and that, again, may degrade more than it “purifies.”
Ashtanga Yoga: Ahimsa is hard to find.
Or, in a western register,
Ashtanga Yoga: God damn it, you’ve got do be kind.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 30, 05:14 AM · #
Hmmmm. I think there is something to be said of the peace that comes after you scare the crap out of yourself. Kind of a post-fear thing. And most of the ways to approach that involve a kind of violence…? [Musing, here] Or the potential. I did my biggest fear practice via rock climbing — the freezing of the mind when the body feels intense fear. SUPER pratyahara. But I’m not inclined to do it through (relatively) small injury-fear (i.e., barking teacher, disc slippage). Still, it’s interesting to be —just now— clued in to the parallel. And it has a certain function, this body-based (and mind, too, of course!) fear practice. A mode for researching (and, perhaps, transcending) abhinivesha? A method for researching the place where ego (which we almost inevitably see as “mind”) flips over and is recognized as BODY...
Posted by: karen · Aug 30, 07:40 AM · #
I agree completely!
I guess there’s some territory to navigate here. Between kindness and being a wuss with yourself; between going straightforward into fear and violence.
Maybe I’m just a little weary today. Why do ashtangis need to manufacture so much drama around our practices? Both practice itself and relationships that surround it.
I know we’d get lost without our myths and narratives, but…
And catharsis is great, but we’re all so serious about it. Catharsis junkies, even.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 30, 05:13 PM · #
That kind of catharsis-by-fire is risky though. Even if we don’t see effects that are immediately attributable to the fearful event, it’s still a roll of the dice. Any kind of aversion can wedge itself deeply within the ego. With a few glimpses of the grandeur of subtlety under one’s belt, shouldn’t it then be easier to opt for the subtler approach?
Posted by: Carl · Aug 30, 05:21 PM · #
Excellent perspective, both of you. Yes, more subtlety, less drama. I get lots of fear/drama around abhinivesha (which is what it’s made of, after all) — but some subtlety, some lightness, some humor could certainly be cultivated!
Weary Owl! Some rest is in order?
Posted by: karen · Aug 31, 05:01 AM · #
Yes.
Here’s the hilarious part. I’m weary because I dropped second series entirely. The sudden decrease in physical activity has completely knocked me out. I ache everywhere.
Also, I’ve been thinking about when a sister church went through a church-split when I was about ten. That was a sad time.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 31, 08:32 AM · #
Are you knocked out because of doing less physical activity or because you are going from standing poses straight into crazy third series poses?
Posted by: V · Aug 31, 10:36 AM · #
I will try to find time to post about this. I think it is that my body is attached to second. It is a fucking genius programme, and taking it suddenly away after so many years is HARSH. My body feels like you feel when you don’t practice at all.
Third series itself is a consolation, but yes, it’s true that going straight from standing into those deep postures does create some soreness. And rather than just feeling a bit achey (this transition would be so much harder for a less flexible person… honestly, after years of 2S my body is open no matter what), I experience the ache as a kind of… fatigue. Straaaaange. My asana teacher thinks it will pass quickly—that I’ll readjust. He would know.
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 31, 10:43 AM · #
There’s the nervous system hit of new things (lift heavy weights, ride a mountain bike up a mountain for the first time, scare yourself on a long multi-pitch climb, go from standing to deep, strenous 3rd). There’re all kinds of symptoms, and fatigue is certainly one of them. Once you pass through that gauntlet, though… look out! You’ll probably be shooting sparks out of your fingertips. LOL!
Posted by: karen · Aug 31, 11:04 AM · #
:)
Posted by: (0v0) · Aug 31, 11:59 AM · #
Well, I felt exactly the same when I split into doing Intermediate only. I missed Primary so badly!
Posted by: Vanessa · Sep 2, 01:43 AM · #
hi (0v0), just checking that one can be this far down with google chrome, and yes, one can comment. i notice what you’re talking about- you’re being split from practice of 2nd and doing 3rd now without that base.
best,
arturo
Posted by: arturo · Sep 3, 05:02 AM · #